I’m in favour of being paid in NDX for simplicity
I think I might pick ETH/NDX uniLP token, if the gas price is reasonable. Now the gas price would probably make same smaller positions not worth the effort
Given what the reality is, I would vote for the payout being NDX token, following up with a suggestion of an additional “Lock Reward Function”. Once it is called there will be no more early withdrawal, but this option allows compounding the reward. It would be appealing, given that the maximum lock duration won’t be too long
I think this is great and moves the value capture for NDX in the right direction. Similar mechanism to xSushi or iFARM.
I would prefer to have rewards be paid out in NDX.
I also think a huge benefit of this if designed correctly would be to be able to leverage dNDX as collateral on other platforms to increase the efficiency of the capital invested in the NDX platform. I would like to see that be part of the official proposal.
Great work on this!
Adding my opinion here that I’m in favor of the rewards being paid in NDX.
We have an opportunity here to generate buy pressure on NDX with no downside, it would be silly to pay out in DAI and miss out on that.
More buy pressure on NDX is healthy for the platform, people are more willing to hold, lock and vote with the token if they know that the buybacks are helping prevent their locked funds from bleeding value. A higher NDX value also promotes more decentralization in governance (harder to own a large portion) and a higher NDX value means it’s more powerful as an incentive, thus drawing in more TVL/users.
Furthermore, if the payout is in DAI (or other ERC20), the NDX from early withdraw fees will be sold for that other token. Why would we want to dump NDX on the NDX supporters? That creates an environment that drives people away. People don’t want to lock up tokens that will be dumped on them…
So not only is it beneficial to pay out in NDX, it’s a negative to pay out in anything else. Big vote from me for NDX as the payout.
1 Like
I agree, rewards should be in NDX, and there should be an “auto-compound” option to pay a one time fee to restate all earned rewards into dividend earning position. Like xRuler or xSushi.
I think it should be paid out in NDX and people can make their own choice whether to sell or hodl NDX long-term. I am also wondering if the rewards can be auto-compounded into dNDX?
This is an interesting idea. Not sure how complex it is to implement though.
In the interests of actually putting forth some figures for the DAO to vote on in the Snapshot determining the dNDX configuration parameters [and I suggest others do the same - these are my own preferences]:
Minimum/Maximum Lock Duration: 90 - 360 days
Maximum Bonus Multiplier: 2.5x
Maximum Early Withdrawal Fee: 50%
Dividends Payment Token: NDX
Minimum Deposit: 50 NDX [adjustable by DAO]
Minimum/Maximum Lock Duration: 90 - 360 days
Maximum Bonus Multiplier: 2.5x
Maximum Early Withdrawal Fee: 75%
Dividends Payment Token: UNIv2LP or SLP (NDX:ETH)
Minimum Deposit: 50 NDX [adjustable by DAO]
That’s an amazing proposal that will add value to NDX.
Does that mean that we cannot let the staker decide which token he wants to get rewarded with? Like in finance we can choose between cash distribution dividend (ie. DAI in our case) or reinvesting (NDX). It would be good to have this option too, then if it’s not possible I would prefer the NDX rewards for the explanation described in the previous comments (virtuous circle for NDX ecosystem, enabling auto-compound).
Does that mean that we cannot let the staker decide which token he wants to get rewarded with?
Correct. This is a one-off decision that fixes the revenue token in stone.
We must pick Eth or DAI it is the only decision with predictable consequences.
You’re welcome to vote that way when the Snapshot comes out 
I’ve created a google sheet people can use to analyze different configuration parameters, and in doing so I’ve realized we need to make two modifications:
- Charge a base early withdrawal fee that is always added to the variable fee
- Multiply the early withdrawal fee by the dividends multiplier
The reason for both of these is to prevent perverse incentives, where you can get additional dividends by setting a very long lock duration without any intention to wait for the full lock period. Even with a very high maximum early withdrawal fee, we would only need an APY on the minimal lock period of like 5-10% before it would be worthwhile to just lock up for the maximum period and withdraw halfway through.
Here is a link to the spreadsheet
Feel free to copy it and play around with the configuration.
Here are some example configurations
4 Likes
I prefer NDX as well.
Will the max lockup be permanent? I’m thinking of some other projects that have longer periods than 1 year and I wonder if we would want that at some point. But I’m good with 1-2 years.
How does it work if you buy dNDX on the open market? Someone without NDX locked wouldn’t be able to use the dNDX to unlock anything right? They would just get the dividends and then be able to sell the dNDX to someone else later of they wanted?
Maybe max multiplier around 4x?
If min duration was 90 you could get 2x for 180 3x for 270 and 4x for 360.
I think most people would go with 4x in that scenario? But that might make shorter terms less attractive.
Most importantly I think you should never be incentivized to withdraw early (ignoring opportunity cost) - mostly because I’m lazy and don’t want to need to figure out the ideal time to withdraw early.
hi guys
i just like what you do . i leave in koh samui thailand /i have all your coins include NDX
i hope you keep going.
i dont understand to majority of what you said. hope you wll have easy explanation from ordinary people
We won’t be able to change it, if that’s what you mean.
Exactly - having dNDX allows you to receive dividends, but in order to withdraw staked you need to have locked them up.
1 Like
Using NDX instead of Dai or any other non-protocol-native token would have the advantage that dividends of stakers that never withdraw them are de-facto re-distributed to all holders of NDX (through an effectively decreasing supply), while permanently locked Dai would simply be lost
1 Like
That’s a good point. I’m sure that will be a non trivial amount.
Can’t we revisit this proposal and explore additional options? Why wouldn’t we payout dividends as an indice made up of ndx, eth & dai. I’ve never been fond of how this proposal worked out and now that dNdx has been delayed why not iterate one more time.
The way this is structured now only drives volatility to NDX, but didn’t we want to drive value? Paying out with indices increases the generated exit fees which is being paid out as dividends so there you have it.
1 Like